Episode 5

full
Published on:

10th Sep 2025

The Steveo McKone Story: Finding Flow and Community the Calleva Way

In this episode of Following Waters, host Brett Mayer sits down with Steve “Steve-O” McKone, director of the Calleva River School in Poolesville, Maryland. Steve-O shares his journey from his first paddle on the George Washington Canal at 19, to becoming a lifelong paddler, teacher, and community builder.

Together, Brett and Steve explore:

  • The moment kayaking first captured Steve-O’s imagination and soul.
  • How Calleva River School cultivates grit, resilience, and confidence in paddlers of all ages.
  • Stories of challenge, growth, and joy that come from a life spent on the water.
  • Steve-O’s vision for building community and inspiring the next generation of paddlers in the D.C.–Maryland–Virginia region.
  • Reflections on why paddling is more than just sport—it’s a way of shaping life and meaning.

Brett also shares a personal update about returning from the Gauley River and dedicates this episode to the memory of paddler Pat Miljour.

Links & Resources

About the Podcast

Following Waters explores how rivers shape our lives and the stories we carry from them. Each episode, host Brett Mayer invites paddlers, educators, and river leaders to share authentic conversations about life on the water.

Transcript
Speaker:

Welcome back to Following Waters.

2

:

I'm your host, Brett Mayer.

3

:

If you've been listening along,

you know that this podcast is about

4

:

rivers, but more than that, it's

about the people shaped by them.

5

:

Up to now, I haven't shared a whole

lot about my own paddling journey.

6

:

I came to love Whitewater so deeply

that I wanted to understand it on

7

:

a different level, not just how to

run a rapid or read a river, but how

8

:

paddling becomes a part of who we are.

9

:

That's what led me to spend four years

researching and ultimately writing

10

:

the lived experiences of whitewater

kayakers, a phenomenological exploration.

11

:

I wanted to track the narrative journeys,

paddlers, move through over time.

12

:

What are the common threads?

13

:

What lessons stay with us, and why

is this experience so valuable?

14

:

That curiosity is what

fuels this podcast too.

15

:

I'm experimenting learning as I go, and

my mission is really simple to bring

16

:

you authentic conversations with real

people and to spark reflection about

17

:

how life on the water connects us,

teaches us, and ultimately inspires us.

18

:

My hope is that no matter your background,

you'll walk away from each episode

19

:

with something that resonates, a story,

an insight, or just a reminder of why

20

:

the river community matters so much.

21

:

I just got back from the Gali River this

weekend, and like so many of you, I felt

22

:

the excitement, the energy, and the deep

sense of community that paddling creates,

23

:

but that joy was also tempered by loss.

24

:

The paddling community said

goodbye to a friend Pat Milour.

25

:

I didn't personally know Pat well, but

I have close friends who did, and I want

26

:

to take a second to just dedicate this

episode to his memory for the rest of us.

27

:

Let's keep that fire burning

and I'll see you on the river.

28

:

Brett: Today, I am excited to bring you a

conversation with someone who's passionate

29

:

for Rivers, runs as deep as they come.

30

:

Steve.

31

:

Steve o McCone, the co-director of the

KVA River School in Poolsville, Maryland.

32

:

Steve O has been a fixture at KVA

since:

33

:

urgently needed a surfing instructor,

marking the beginning of a long

34

:

and meaningful journey at just 19.

35

:

It was a paddle down the george

Washington Canal that first

36

:

hooked him, kayaking, captured his

soul and he hasn't looked back.

37

:

Now guiding both youth and adults

in discovering that same magic over

38

:

the years, Steve O has grown into

a lifelong educator, outdoor mentor

39

:

and champion of community, combining

enthusiasm, deep respect for the

40

:

natural world, and a dedication to

building skills and grit in others.

41

:

Whether he's teaching white watering

techniques or nurturing new paddlers, his

42

:

energy for rivers is truly infectious.

43

:

Today we'll dive into Steve O's evolution

from that first Canal paddle to becoming

44

:

the River School Director, and how he

continues to shape paddling culture

45

:

and confidence in the DC Maryland,

Virginia region, and far beyond.

46

:

. Let's hit the water.

47

:

How's it going?

48

:

What's up man?

49

:

How you doing?

50

:

I'm doing good.

51

:

I'm excited to be on this podcast.

52

:

This is my first one ever.

53

:

This is your first podcast ever.

54

:

Well, welcome.

55

:

It's only my fifth one ever, so

you know, we're not far off there.

56

:

We should probably disclose

to the audience that you and

57

:

I know each other fairly well.

58

:

I think that's a fair disclosure

to make, when did we first meet?

59

:

I started paddling in 2009.

60

:

You were teaching in Bethesda, Maryland.

61

:

Yes.

62

:

Yeah.

63

:

I met you when you were there living

in that little house above the garage.

64

:

Probably 2000, 10, probably.

65

:

Yeah.

66

:

Were, and you were already

working at KVA at that?

67

:

Yeah.

68

:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

69

:

I started in 2008.

70

:

I was the baker at Harris Teeter when

they needed a surfing instructor.

71

:

Last minute.

72

:

I got interviewed on a Friday and

left with a group of kids to go

73

:

surfing at the beach all summer.

74

:

On a Monday I quit my job at

Harris Teeter, and that's how I got

75

:

into the outdoor, outdoor world.

76

:

Harris Teeter to the big

waves of the eastern shore.

77

:

Delaware Cape Henlo, and they're huge.

78

:

Nice.

79

:

Were you really out

there for a whole month?

80

:

I came back every week, so I went out

there with a different group every Monday.

81

:

Came back on Friday.

82

:

I lived in a little like

popup camper all summer.

83

:

At Cape Hendle and State Park, I go

pick up kids, bring 'em out, teach 'em

84

:

how to surf, have some fun, bring it

back on Friday what's the daily routine

85

:

like when you're running surf camp?

86

:

Oh, man, it's probably changed

so much that was so long ago, but

87

:

what we would do is we would, wake

up, have some kind of challenge.

88

:

In the morning we did this thing

called the gallon challenge, where

89

:

we would drink milk and go run a mile

and see who could do the fastest.

90

:

And if you threw up, you lost.

91

:

That was one of 'em.

92

:

We would go out early and surf after that.

93

:

'cause the waves were better in the

morning and, during the day come back

94

:

and make a sweet lunch at camp, make

some sandcastles, go out surfing in

95

:

the evening, go to the boardwalk.

96

:

It was good, good life.

97

:

Nice.

98

:

That does sound like you

would go to the boardwalk.

99

:

Ocean City, Maryland.

100

:

Oh, you would go to Ocean City?

101

:

Yeah.

102

:

Yeah.

103

:

We don't do that anymore

for obvious reasons.

104

:

It's a little, it's a little crazy.

105

:

That sounds dangerous for obvious reasons.

106

:

Yeah.

107

:

And were there actual waves

108

:

yeah, A little short break.

109

:

Try not to get 'em to hit

their face in the sand.

110

:

It was good for what it was, you know,

getting kids to experience the ocean in a

111

:

different way than they ever have before.

112

:

So that was important to me.

113

:

Seeing as you were a baker at Harris

Teeter, the kva, they surely recognized

114

:

you had the prerequisite skillset

to, lead, a group of young people on

115

:

the dangerous waves of Cape him open.

116

:

Yeah, that to me, I think about where I

am now at kva and if I interviewed me,

117

:

I don't know that I would've made that

decision, but it was a different time.

118

:

I like to think that they

recognized something in me from

119

:

that first conversation, which

was only probably 20 minutes long.

120

:

And then, to see that I had something

in me that would get me into the

121

:

outdoors and be a key figure here.

122

:

Who interviewed you?

123

:

Do you remember that interview?

124

:

Lucy interviewed me.

125

:

Okay.

126

:

Lucy.

127

:

Yeah.

128

:

Lucy Martin interviewed me and

then And Lucy's the director.

129

:

Yeah.

130

:

And I'm pretty sure I

talked to Alex Markoff.

131

:

Okay.

132

:

That night.

133

:

I don't know, they tell me the

story of what they were talking

134

:

about in the background, now that

it's been 17 years and it's okay.

135

:

About you, you when they, when they met?

136

:

Yeah.

137

:

Yeah.

138

:

What did they tell, what did they tell

you now when they look back 17 years

139

:

later and they're like, Hey, remember

that guy, Steve-O he was baking a mean

140

:

loaf of bread back in that Harris Teeter,

and we just pulled him right off the

141

:

streets and we're like surfing guru.

142

:

Yeah.

143

:

Yeah.

144

:

It was something, something

along those lines.

145

:

That was something Alex

said to me one time.

146

:

He is like, when I first started

kayaking and it probably something said

147

:

similar when I was being interviewed

for surfing, but he was like, Steve is

148

:

either gonna be a really good kayaker

or he is gonna die really quickly.

149

:

And so it was kind of like that.

150

:

They said something probably similar

to that with like, he's either

151

:

gonna make surf camp awesome, or

he's gonna be fired really quickly.

152

:

And you made it awesome.

153

:

Nice work.

154

:

I actually, in full disclosure,

had no idea how to surf.

155

:

I told them that I, they were like, they

asked me to like, do you know how to surf?

156

:

And I was like, well, my friend

Max and I went to the beach

157

:

and we did like a few lessons.

158

:

I didn't tell 'em this, but then I

was like, yeah, and then, you know,

159

:

I used to live in California, but

they, I didn't say at the time that

160

:

that was when I was three months old

and I left California when I was one.

161

:

Yeah.

162

:

So I mean, the cool thing is though I had

no idea how to surf, so I was just kind

163

:

of teaching myself as I was teaching kids.

164

:

That's how I kind of

learned how to kayak too.

165

:

You know?

166

:

It was the same kind of way,

like, Hey, like summer's over.

167

:

Do you want to kayak?

168

:

It was like, yeah, and I had told them

I had kayaked before, so they the same

169

:

way I had surfed before, and so they

like threw me in with a group for a week.

170

:

I taught them like you continued to just

be like, yeah, I know what I'm doing.

171

:

And they were like,

sure, we'll believe you.

172

:

Yeah, figured it out.

173

:

Yeah.

174

:

And then, so I taught a whole week of kids

who know the sweep stroke as as a rainbow

175

:

stroke and probably a paddling horribly.

176

:

The rainbow stroke.

177

:

I've never heard it

called the rainbow stroke.

178

:

Oh dude.

179

:

Yeah.

180

:

Yeah.

181

:

The rainbow stroke.

182

:

It's the way to go.

183

:

I like it.

184

:

Do you know about the flipper draw?

185

:

No.

186

:

Ooh, tell me about the flipper draw.

187

:

No, I can't.

188

:

I got, I'm gonna have to show you.

189

:

It's my secret sauce.

190

:

All right.

191

:

Next time we hang out,

it's the most flipper draw.

192

:

This is how I sell it.

193

:

Ready?

194

:

This is my catch point

for it when I teach it.

195

:

It's the most important stroke

that you're never gonna use,

196

:

that you're never gonna use.

197

:

Okay.

198

:

Yeah.

199

:

Awesome.

200

:

I've been there with KVA as well.

201

:

, I've taught a one wheel, I've

done one wheel camp, right?

202

:

Never ridden a one wheel, but

showed up and, I think I borrowed

203

:

someone's one wheel a week before

and, you know, crashed horribly.

204

:

Showed up to one wheel camp with

these kids with no skin on my legs.

205

:

Yep.

206

:

Eating everywhere.

207

:

And, you know, it had a blast.

208

:

It was, it was awesome.

209

:

We should say what is, what is kva?

210

:

Tell what, tell people what KVA is.

211

:

KVA is an outdoor adventure

company based in the DC area.

212

:

We, you know, they started

in the early nineties.

213

:

With the three brothers,

Alex, Nick, and Matt.

214

:

And, you know, now we have like

four pretty awesome locations

215

:

in the DC area, one in West

Virginia where we run summer camp.

216

:

We teach lessons to adults and kids for

all types of outdoor adventure sports.

217

:

Right now we're in the fall season,

so the private schools are coming out

218

:

to us and we're doing team building

activities on the challenge course,

219

:

or we're take, we have three groups

out right now for a whole week.

220

:

Just doing different outdoor activities,

221

:

It's pretty cool.

222

:

Pretty good organization and it's big.

223

:

It's become really big.

224

:

To my understanding, in terms of paddling

schools in the us it's one of, or if not.

225

:

The biggest in terms of number of

students served in a given year.

226

:

Is that true?

227

:

Do I have that right?

228

:

Yeah, it's hard to say 'cause I haven't

been everywhere, but any given day, pick

229

:

a Tuesday in the middle of the summer.

230

:

And we'll have probably like in all of

our paddle sports, like on the river,

231

:

we'll probably have 400 kids on the

river any given day in the summer.

232

:

Doing paddle boarding kids on

the river on any given day.

233

:

Yeah.

234

:

It's like canoeing, paddle

boarding, kayaking, you know,

235

:

everything pack rafting now.

236

:

Yeah, it's a lot like just people

we're just, and then that, that

237

:

includes if we're just talking about

kayaking, that's like probably 40

238

:

to 50 kayakers a week out there.

239

:

And mostly kids.

240

:

And then we do on the weekends,

we'll have a lot of kids out, a

241

:

lot of adults on the weekends.

242

:

Upwards of 50 to a hundred

depending on the time of the year.

243

:

Participating in different

programs like beginner programs.

244

:

I think one thing that we're.

245

:

More well known for in the River

school is we like have a pretty high

246

:

level advanced training program where

we train people to go run Class four,

247

:

five whitewater and kind of step

them up to, to get to that point.

248

:

That's awesome.

249

:

Yeah.

250

:

Is that cheat, cheat training?

251

:

Is that part That's one of the

things, yeah, that's, yeah, that's

252

:

like a class four one that gets

us ready for the cheat race.

253

:

And it's really more like

a spring kind of training.

254

:

And then we have training for the

upper Y and then we have, now we

255

:

call it the southeast stouts trip

because we had, it was the Green

256

:

River training, but that's changed.

257

:

Right.

258

:

And we haven't really gotten to know

the new green well enough to take people

259

:

down and just to avoid that area a bit.

260

:

But, we do fall training, which

gets you ready for the gey.

261

:

So yeah, we, we try to take

people anywhere from like first

262

:

time in a boat to paddling their

first class four, five river.

263

:

That's intense.

264

:

To see a paddler, from a starting

point all the way to getting

265

:

them on the upper golley.

266

:

What's that journey like

with an adult paddler?

267

:

You have any good stories of someone

who didn't know anything and then

268

:

you got them out on the Upper Gali.

269

:

Upper Gali, it's a, class four,

five, river in West Virginia.

270

:

I had this guy, he was a military

guy, just like was not gonna give up.

271

:

He paddled for a year.

272

:

And I remember his, like first

I was with him, like his first

273

:

or second time in the boat.

274

:

And then a year, exactly, almost a

year later, he was paddling great

275

:

falls and not just like Beaty down

it like with good, good technique.

276

:

'cause he just kind of bought in.

277

:

Like he went through all of our programs

and that one year and was like, bam.

278

:

Ready for it.

279

:

And it was pretty cool to see,

to see the whole process work if

280

:

somebody committed to it, you know?

281

:

That must be really rewarding, right?

282

:

To take someone from really not knowing

much, to taking them to a point where,

283

:

they're feeling a lot of accomplishment

in the skills they've acquired and then

284

:

how they've been able to apply them.

285

:

In a real life situation.

286

:

There's this one story about somebody who,

and you've probably taken, you've taken

287

:

people down class five, you've taken me

down some of my first class fives, but

288

:

there's this one guy who probably late

fifties, maybe sixties, doctor in DC.

289

:

I took him down fish ladder for the first

time and only the fifth slide 'cause he

290

:

was not quite ready for the rest of it.

291

:

And he got to the bottom and

he looked at me and he's like,

292

:

man, that was better than sex.

293

:

And I was just like, man, like it's like

this is how these guys, you know, it's

294

:

so fun to see adults in that headspace.

295

:

This guy's a doctor, he is

gonna come and check me out.

296

:

And then also he is out there

paddling, . class five and it's crazy.

297

:

That is amazing.

298

:

Being in the field of adventure

education, and offering that space

299

:

not only to young people, but also to

adults who also have just as much of

300

:

a need to experience those kinds of

transformational moments in their life.

301

:

You know, where they enter that

space of unfettered, joy experiencing

302

:

something new and exhilarating what's

really cool is I get to do it so

303

:

much with both, , and to see that

with the kids and with the adults.

304

:

It's like, I get so much satisfaction

from both, from all those ages.

305

:

It's really amazing.

306

:

'cause they all need it

for a different reason.

307

:

Yeah.

308

:

That's an interesting thing.

309

:

When you think about kids and adults,

and when you say they all need it

310

:

for different reasons, talk to me

about the reasons kids need it and

311

:

the reasons that adults need it.

312

:

What's the same and maybe

what's a little bit different.

313

:

Hmm.

314

:

Yeah, I mean, I think it's maybe obvious

'cause we both have kids, why kids

315

:

need some kind of outlet like that.

316

:

But there's so many unhealthy outlets

out there right now kids that are

317

:

growing up with, these phones in

their hands and all that kinda stuff.

318

:

I have seen experienced with kids

and this is like really the hook

319

:

I think for kids and might be for

adults too, but maybe not so much.

320

:

I took, my kids ran SCA breaks,

which is just like a little class

321

:

one two run outside of our office.

322

:

And I just sent my 9-year-old and

7-year-old down there by themselves.

323

:

And it was like the first

real like adventure they had

324

:

with no parents involved.

325

:

It was something of their

own creation, you know?

326

:

And like somebody swam and they dealt with

it and it was, you know, they got it all

327

:

figured out I think was like the hook.

328

:

Like they're out there with their

friends having their own adventure,

329

:

creating something that, you know,

they can't get anywhere else.

330

:

You know, it's just that autonomy.

331

:

That's really interesting to me,

this idea of, you know, creating

332

:

something on your own that is sort of,

unsolicited by any, anything else, right?

333

:

You're just out there kind

of inventing as you go.

334

:

Why do we think that's so important,

there's so many things that it's

335

:

just, here's the show, here's the

activity, here's the play date that

336

:

you know, mom and dad set up for you.

337

:

Here's the sports activity

that we're signed up for

338

:

that someone else is running.

339

:

I work in education, so I definitely know

firsthand how overscheduled kids can be.

340

:

Trying to find.

341

:

Those blank spaces on the map where

there's an opportunity that kids can

342

:

discover in that space where it is blank?

343

:

Autonomy I think is huge.

344

:

I'm gonna catch this Eddie.

345

:

Not because someone told me

to, but because I decided that

346

:

I want to catch this Eddie.

347

:

Creating their own design down

a run that we do all the time.

348

:

You know, putting their stamp on how

they wanna be is, I think that translates

349

:

to so much more than just paddling.

350

:

Yeah, it's like giving kids space to live.

351

:

That sounds crazy, but it's like

how much space do we really.

352

:

Give them to experience life

on their own terms these days.

353

:

These are things I wonder

about as like a dad.

354

:

And I've tried to be really

thoughtful about my own three kids.

355

:

Just yesterday, you know, I had my

son River, my son Stokes started doing

356

:

slalom at the Nanny Hill Outdoor Center.

357

:

So we go there once a week right now,

and Stokes is in slalom practice.

358

:

Then I take river upstream and

it's really been pretty amazing.

359

:

He's eight and so it's just the two of us.

360

:

There's not a soul out there on

a Monday afternoon on the Nana

361

:

Hill, and we've just been taking

turns kinda leading on the river.

362

:

The first time we went out, he was kind

of crying in the Eddie a little bit,

363

:

and he was really nervous, but he was

so determined he really wanted to go.

364

:

Hey, man, like.

365

:

You know, if you're too

scared, we can get out.

366

:

It's all good.

367

:

Like, we can try another day.

368

:

And he was like, no, I really wanna do it.

369

:

I'm just, I'm just so scared.

370

:

And I said, well, that's okay.

371

:

Sometimes in life we really do wanna

do things, but we're also really

372

:

scared to do things at the same time.

373

:

And so we've gotta kind of

wrestle with that a little bit.

374

:

Eventually he just, you know, we went back

and forth for a while and we drifted out.

375

:

Into the river and once we were out

there in it, you know the whole world,

376

:

you could just see it open up for him.

377

:

He started to paddle the boat around and

he was moving from side to side and he

378

:

was like, oh, this is so much more fun.

379

:

This is nothing against paddle boarding.

380

:

He's been on a paddleboard a lot and

they're just more difficult to maneuver

381

:

and they're not as precise in the water.

382

:

And so that was his prerequisite

experience and so he was like,

383

:

oh, you can go so much faster

and you can do this and that.

384

:

It was just such pure joy.

385

:

And then so he really, that

it was just a game changer.

386

:

And then, so we've gone back the

past two weeks and then I'll be

387

:

like, Hey, you lead this one.

388

:

'cause he knows the run.

389

:

And then he is, you know, exploring around

and then he is starting to catch Eddie's.

390

:

And I was leading him into

Eddie's at first, and then he

391

:

was starting to find his own.

392

:

It just was interesting watching

him kind of be the start to be

393

:

the author of his own experience.

394

:

Yeah.

395

:

And I think that's the thing that

we sometimes miss with kids these

396

:

days, like allowing them the

opportunity to even be the author of

397

:

their experience a little bit yeah.

398

:

There's a lot of different

ways to make it happen,

399

:

I see it a lot in the paddling and

it's really, really is amazing to see.

400

:

DC's a big, huge city and so do a lot

of the kids that come to kva or do

401

:

they have a lot of outdoor background

or is like the experience at kva.

402

:

Pretty much kind of an outlier

to their normal experience?

403

:

No, I mean, I think like the people that

live in the DC area are pretty good about

404

:

getting their kids outside to go camping.

405

:

Like a lot of the kids that come have been

camping before, you know, done something

406

:

other, you know, so it's pretty good.

407

:

You get some people that have had those

outdoor experiences and that would

408

:

probably be the norm, I would say.

409

:

They don't know.

410

:

I think like the, what they don't in their

backyard, you know, like they don't know

411

:

that like a mile from where they live.

412

:

There's this amazing river that they

can go there on any day of the week and

413

:

there's very few people out there and

they can have their own adventures right

414

:

in their backyard, which is a pretty

amazing aspect of like the Potomac

415

:

River running through the DC area.

416

:

It's world class.

417

:

I think people for that particular

river in that city, right?

418

:

People I feel like, many

people don't, realize the full

419

:

extent to how truly unique.

420

:

That river is, as a paddling resource, to

such a area of high population density.

421

:

It offers an infinite variety of

adventures, in close proximity

422

:

and like we were talking about the

difference with adults and the kids and

423

:

like these kids, their eyes are wide open.

424

:

They're seeing this new experience.

425

:

And these adults, some of them

are lawyers, they're doctors,

426

:

they work for the government.

427

:

They're these pretty high

powered people, you know, and

428

:

you get these people out there.

429

:

I have this one guy who like works

for NASA and creates these tiny little

430

:

things for NASA that only he knows how

to do, you get 'em out there and they're

431

:

learning something new and you get

to see who they really are, you know?

432

:

It's hard sometimes.

433

:

It's hard to imagine that people when

I'm out there on the river and they're

434

:

nervous or they're scared and they're

out of their element and how they are

435

:

and they're like, work life, you know?

436

:

And like their other life where I

don't see them, you know, how much

437

:

do they command in their work life?

438

:

And here on the river, I'm, yeah,

they could be totally the man.

439

:

Or the woman.

440

:

Right, exactly.

441

:

Like, no, and here I am, CEO.

442

:

And then you're just hanging on the

river and they're just like, oh my

443

:

God, I don't wanna run that rapid.

444

:

It's freaking terrifying.

445

:

Or I'm emptying their boat

on the side of the river.

446

:

'cause they just swam down something

and you know, they're cold, they're wet,

447

:

they're not in the happiest of places.

448

:

I wonder at those moments,

I'm like, I wonder what this

449

:

person is like in a courtroom.

450

:

They're putting themselves in this

like totally vulnerable position.

451

:

Yeah.

452

:

And it's good for adults to be in that.

453

:

I just think about it like

when I teach rolling to adults.

454

:

I'm so glad I learned how to roll when I

did because I could not imagining how to

455

:

do it as an adult, like a 40-year-old,

50-year-old adult, learning how to

456

:

roll, just getting drenched, like a wet

puppy in the water as you're teaching

457

:

them, It seems like a lot of things, the

older you get, it's definitely harder.

458

:

More challenging for a variety of

reasons, physically and mentally.

459

:

For sure.

460

:

I remember, I've had some of

those experiences with folks in dc

461

:

this is a while back, there's

that documentary Chasing Coral.

462

:

It probably came eight years ago.

463

:

You might even know the guy,

but he was ... mark Ekin.

464

:

That's right.

465

:

I just remember being out in the

river with him and I'm like, no way.

466

:

We're just paddling together.

467

:

He is got a, a full cameo

that's being, you know.

468

:

Yeah.

469

:

He was the chief scientist

on that documentary.

470

:

Yes.

471

:

For any work for Noah Forever, ever.

472

:

I mean, he just retired.

473

:

I know just so badass.

474

:

And then just hanging with them

on the river, going for a paddle.

475

:

, That's such the cool thing about, you

know, kayaking on the Potomac in the,

476

:

in that, in the, in the DC area, right.

477

:

You get, there's just so many, such a,

a variety of like professionals that.

478

:

That are out there on the, on the water.

479

:

It's, it's really interesting.

480

:

I mean, DC is the land where

you see like, you know, used

481

:

remix 60 nines on top of Teslas.

482

:

You know, 'cause this person just

wanted to learn how to kayak and they

483

:

bought this 69 remix from somebody.

484

:

Right.

485

:

And, you pull an English parking

lot and you're just like, whoa.

486

:

There're dirt bags.

487

:

And then there's, and they're all

intermingling together and it's

488

:

just like, it's a unique community.

489

:

I love it.

490

:

It is.

491

:

I do.

492

:

I love it too.

493

:

Yeah, it's a unique mix of just like,

a lot of different walks of life,

494

:

bonding over, time on the water.

495

:

take us back to age 19.

496

:

You first got into a kayak on

the George Washington Canal.

497

:

Do you remember the first moment

when you're in the boat and

498

:

you're like, oh, this is it?

499

:

Like, what drew you in?

500

:

The beauty of it, like the George

Washington Canal, so many people in the

501

:

area have learned on that section and

it's this Potomac River is a half mile

502

:

wide and then all of a sudden there's

this small little channel that goes.

503

:

Off to the right and you could be anywhere

in the world in this little channel.

504

:

I often like, imagine I'm in like

Costa Rica or something when I'm going

505

:

through it and there's perfectly placed

rocks and you can kind of dance down

506

:

it and there's a little surfing hole

called the George Washing machine.

507

:

And um, you know, I swam

there my first time and uh, my

508

:

friend's dad, got me through it.

509

:

And I think just being somewhere.

510

:

On the Potomac that I didn't know

existed, and it could be anywhere

511

:

in the world, was just like,

that's what really sold me on it.

512

:

I think like the whitewater, like, oh,

and like also in the end someplace that

513

:

you didn't start, you know, like that

whole experience was pretty, pretty cool.

514

:

Not just a loop, it's you're going

start to finish in a different place.

515

:

Yeah.

516

:

Like you end up somewhere different.

517

:

That's what you mean.

518

:

Yeah.

519

:

Yeah, exactly.

520

:

You set off into the unknown in a way.

521

:

What I hear from that story is just the

invitation into like this sort of mystery

522

:

it's sort of like what's just below the

surface, like on this river, and you're

523

:

like, I have no idea this was even here.

524

:

And it's been right there.

525

:

The whole time.

526

:

That was intriguing to you?

527

:

Yeah.

528

:

That was, pretty good to me.

529

:

to get into the sport, I was

looking for something, you know,

530

:

and so it just kind of came at

the right time and that was good.

531

:

It was actually even before I was

19, my friend Max Snyder and his

532

:

dad took me, taught me how to roll

in their pool when I was like 16,

533

:

and then took me down the GW Canal.

534

:

And then I did that a few times

this summer, for two summers.

535

:

And then that's when I got into kva.

536

:

And then it was like every day we

were paddling the GW after work.

537

:

You were working at kva, then you

start paddling the GW after work.

538

:

Yeah, Jeff Gertz.

539

:

And I would like, yeah, he is.

540

:

Him and I really like

hit it hard together.

541

:

Yeah.

542

:

That was fun.

543

:

So you kind of had a buddy along for the

ride and you were kind of deepening this

544

:

relationship with the river, together.

545

:

For sure.

546

:

That was like your original

career and he was a little

547

:

bit, further along than I was.

548

:

He had been voting for, he grew

up at Keva, so he had been voting

549

:

for a lot longer than I was, you

know, he would take me out and, you

550

:

know, be there to help if I needed.

551

:

And he was just a good guy to be with.

552

:

Yeah.

553

:

Max, my friend who taught me how

to roll, we, had some fun together,

554

:

Did they both still paddle?

555

:

Yeah, Jeff and Max.

556

:

Jeff, doesn't paddle so much anymore.

557

:

He lives up in Cape Cod and then Max,

he'll come out and run the upper yacht

558

:

or he came to Mexico a few years ago,

but he doesn't paddle much anymore.

559

:

Got it.

560

:

Is that interesting?

561

:

People that you started with that were,

'cause I think about that sometimes too.

562

:

There's people that kind of come and go

in your paddling life history, and people

563

:

that were with you in the beginning,

but maybe they paddled for a little

564

:

while and then they don't anymore.

565

:

Is that an interesting thing that

these guys that you were like so

566

:

close with and so deep into it

and then they kind of backed off?

567

:

Steveo: When you were in it and we

were coming up in our early twenties.

568

:

It was like, nah, this is always

gonna be a part of our life, you know?

569

:

Yeah.

570

:

And for me at least, it's

gonna be a part of my life.

571

:

But now that I'm getting older and,

I have kids, things are different.

572

:

Some people had to move

to different places where

573

:

paddling is not as accessible.

574

:

, I definitely can see it now.

575

:

How it can happen to like, not have

paddling be in your life anymore.

576

:

Brett: Yeah.

577

:

Is it hard for you to imagine

for yourself paddling not being

578

:

in your life anymore, though

579

:

Steveo: Yeah, for sure It is.

580

:

I'm not paddling as much as I did years

ago 'cause I kind of am moving a little

581

:

bit within kva, but I, it's still paddle

whenever I get the opportunity and it will

582

:

always be a part of, of my life for sure.

583

:

Um,

584

:

Brett: I've gone through that,

I think I'm on year like 22,

585

:

something like that since I started.

586

:

And I've definitely gone through phases

of deep intensity pursuing new rivers,

587

:

whatever the goals were at the time.

588

:

As you have kids, you know, you can sort

of, you can feel, for me, I had so many

589

:

paddling goals, you know, over the years.

590

:

Now it's like ticking 'em off and

ticking 'em off, and I wanna race this

591

:

and I wanna paddle that and I want to

go to Mexico and I wanna go to Ecuador.

592

:

And you're doing all these

things and you're going on

593

:

all these amazing adventures.

594

:

And then at some point,

here come, my own kids.

595

:

Then it takes on a whole new life of

kind of re-experiencing the sport.

596

:

Through their eyes , not necessarily

needing to push them into whitewater,

597

:

but just sharing the experience of

just floating down the river with them.

598

:

That kind of resets the stage,

it's like round two almost.

599

:

It's really interesting.

600

:

Steveo: Yeah.

601

:

And that's where I am in

my right now with my kids.

602

:

It's just that next phase.

603

:

It's fun to get 'em into it and ask

to win, to go paddling like that.

604

:

That's like a huge win.

605

:

Did they ask you to go paddling?

606

:

Yeah.

607

:

Like, like That's awesome.

608

:

Last year I was like, the last day before

school, like, what do you guys wanna do?

609

:

And they were like, let's

go paddle the brakes.

610

:

Like the last day I was like,

we can do anything you wanna do.

611

:

And they wanted to go

on the river and paddle.

612

:

SCA breaks.

613

:

I was like, I, I felt like such a win.

614

:

Yeah.

615

:

At that moment.

616

:

Brett: Yeah.

617

:

Those are the, those are the wins.

618

:

Yeah.

619

:

I had a win like that the other day.

620

:

My daughter actually did a KVA

camp and when she was eight,

621

:

eight or nine, and I was like.

622

:

Just stick her in paddling camp, you know?

623

:

Yeah.

624

:

She knew how to paddle a boat.

625

:

She'd paddled a lot of boats since

she'd been like three or four years old.

626

:

Definitely can maneuver a craft

down to body of water, no problem.

627

:

And so it's like, oh, it'll be cool.

628

:

Like, you know, maybe she'll get in there.

629

:

She'll learn to roll a little

bit, you know, hit a few waves.

630

:

Um, and I think she just was, she ended up

with older kids and she just got a little,

631

:

you know, probably a little scared or

whatever, and said, I, she just from the

632

:

experience was like that, you know, she

kind of decided, oh, this is not for me.

633

:

Kayaking part, which happens

being in, which totally happens.

634

:

Yeah.

635

:

I've seen it happen to so many friends,

but it was, it was more the part of

636

:

being inside the kayak with the skirt on.

637

:

Yeah.

638

:

Uh, she didn't want that.

639

:

And so, but she paddle boarded.

640

:

So I was like, great, we'll

just like be on the river.

641

:

We'll, paddleboard.

642

:

And then, so that was years and

years of, you know, we'd go to the

643

:

water and she'd be in a paddle board.

644

:

Um, she'd paddle.

645

:

Sitting on her knees with her brother

on the front of a paddleboard, 13 miles

646

:

down Class two, three River this summer.

647

:

I was like, man, that's

gotta hurt your knees.

648

:

Yeah, she loved it.

649

:

They had a great time.

650

:

But just like a couple weeks ago I

got an old red dancer classic, boat.

651

:

And I don't know if it's, she saw

the boat or whatever, but we were

652

:

going to the nanny hill and she

was like, I kind of want to come.

653

:

And I was like, you wanna get

in the boat with a skirt on?

654

:

And she was like, yeah, I'll do it.

655

:

I was like, all right,

let's get back out there.

656

:

And we got back out there.

657

:

It had been like four years since

she'd been in a boat, you know,

658

:

try to be in a boat with a skirt.

659

:

And she got really nervous for the

first probably half mile to a mile.

660

:

She just like cried a

little bit and she was like.

661

:

I wanna get off.

662

:

I told her, I was like, if you

wanna get off, you can get off.

663

:

No big deal.

664

:

I'll, I'll make sure you can get off.

665

:

But we happened to be at a part

of the river that just pulled

666

:

away from the road a little bit.

667

:

And I was like, we gotta

go just a little farther.

668

:

Steveo: Uh, typical dad moves.

669

:

Brett: Yeah.

670

:

Typical.

671

:

So now I'm.

672

:

Now she's like, you told

me we could get off.

673

:

And I was like, I'm sorry you can

get off, but we do have to go a

674

:

little further to get you off.

675

:

So I was like, but it turned

out, it turned out okay.

676

:

So she went a little further

and I was like, it's cool.

677

:

And we pulled into an Eddie and she

had calmed herself down a little bit.

678

:

And then my, my wife was there

with the truck and she was thinking

679

:

about getting out and she was like,

I was like, you want to get out?

680

:

And she was like, well, she had

a friend that was on the river.

681

:

So she goes to school with Piper.

682

:

And so Piper and Polk, her dad,

uh, and their friend Izzy, like

683

:

they had gone by and they'd, so she

kind of knew they were down there.

684

:

And I think that was

like encouraging to her.

685

:

And she's like, well, they're having fun.

686

:

And I think maybe she

was having a little fun.

687

:

And I was like, what do you wanna,

do you want to go, or do you want

688

:

me to just, we'll keep going.

689

:

Do you wanna get out or do

you wanna go a little further?

690

:

And she's like.

691

:

What do you think?

692

:

I can go a little further.

693

:

I was like, yeah, I totally think

you can go a little further.

694

:

And I was like, there's plenty of

other opportunities to get out.

695

:

And she's like, all right, I'll go.

696

:

And she got back in and then she was

like, just all of a sudden the switch

697

:

flipped and she was just like having

an awesome time catching Eddie's

698

:

great paddler 'cause she has been

on the water since she's been a kid.

699

:

Um, and so it was really cool

to get her back out there.

700

:

It was she, she river stokes

all in the river with me.

701

:

Same time, first time everybody's

in their own kayak in a skirt.

702

:

It was awesome.

703

:

Yeah.

704

:

Very awesome.

705

:

Big win.

706

:

Steveo: And I think you, like

when you said like she maybe

707

:

thought her friend was down there.

708

:

I think that's like, you know,

I was saying that too with, you

709

:

know, these kids have their own

adventure with their friends.

710

:

They, you know, I think friends

are a big part of like, what

711

:

keep people on the river.

712

:

The sport itself is beautiful and

it's fun, but , if you have a good

713

:

crew it makes it so, so much better.

714

:

It's just, it's just so

much fun with friends.

715

:

Brett: Over the years at kva, like what

moments stand out when your connection

716

:

to paddling became deeper, like both

as a paddler and as an educator.

717

:

I imagine right.

718

:

You start as a surfing instructor, you

start kayaking, you enter this world.

719

:

But when's that moment where

it's like, whoa, this is like my

720

:

profession, this is my passion.

721

:

It's like you're experiencing all

these things at the same time.

722

:

Steveo: Yeah.

723

:

That's a good, that's a good question.

724

:

I mean, I talk hiking.

725

:

To so many kids, like early on,

'cause I was running summer camp

726

:

five days a week, 12 kids in a

group, 12 weeks in the summer.

727

:

So many kids were coming through

the program and it was so fun.

728

:

And I really learned how to teach kayaking

well then and I was like, thought that

729

:

I was like a pretty good instructor.

730

:

Then kept teaching kids for a few more

years, and then we started to work with

731

:

Liquid Adventures, Tom Mccuen's company.

732

:

Yeah.

733

:

And started teaching more.

734

:

I started teaching more adults

and you know, you can tell a kid

735

:

to do something, they don't know

if you're good or not, right?

736

:

They don't have any experiences

usually in the outdoors, in this realm.

737

:

Whereas adults are further along, they

know what a good teacher looks like.

738

:

They know what feels good for them.

739

:

When I started getting some more

affirmation from the adults, I was

740

:

like, oh, this is like, this is a,

a good, I could keep doing this.

741

:

You know, I'm pretty good at it.

742

:

People are saying that it's pretty good.

743

:

I really enjoy it.

744

:

And um, my dad was always told me

when I was a kid, he is like, do what

745

:

you love and money will find you.

746

:

Like that really like helped me on

this path too, because there was like,

747

:

I don't have to do the typical path

that all my friends are doing, going

748

:

to college do, that kind of thing.

749

:

It's like this is a good path as well.

750

:

Brett: That's awesome.

751

:

Yeah.

752

:

Yeah.

753

:

So you're getting that positive

affirmation from people that

754

:

you're serving and working with.

755

:

Yeah.

756

:

And that's making you feel

more confident in the path.

757

:

Or the river that you're

floating down, and saying to

758

:

yourself, Hey, this is awesome.

759

:

Let me keep doing this.

760

:

I feel good about this.

761

:

This is having a positive

impact on people's lives and.

762

:

That's a good thing.

763

:

Steveo: Yeah.

764

:

And really like the, I call it like

the aha moment, but like when you teach

765

:

somebody something and then it's like

you see that like, aha, like I got it.

766

:

You know?

767

:

And like it can be anything, right?

768

:

It could be a role, it can be running

a waterfall of you, whatever it is.

769

:

But like watching people get that

aha moment is like really what

770

:

keeps bringing me back to it.

771

:

Brett: Yeah.

772

:

That's awesome.

773

:

I'm so glad you mentioned that.

774

:

Teaching in the classroom for over

20 years, and on the river, there's

775

:

something unique about the teaching

experience on a river environment.

776

:

To me, that's really special.

777

:

What do you think that is?

778

:

When you see someone get it on

the river, it's pretty amazing.

779

:

Steveo: Yeah, because

for me it takes me back.

780

:

I had those moments, like when

I had my aha moments were,

781

:

you know, not too long ago.

782

:

I think it reminds me of

those moments, and that's what

783

:

keeps bringing me back to it.

784

:

And then like, and it

translates as an instructor.

785

:

Now that when I'm teaching, I have aha

moments that are not my technical paddling

786

:

skills, but my teaching paddling skills.

787

:

And so like I'm constantly learning,

constantly improving what I'm

788

:

doing and it, you know, . It's

just constant learning, I think

789

:

is where keeps it engaging.

790

:

Brett: Yeah.

791

:

That's awesome.

792

:

I wonder if it's like, I've thought about

this, it's like when see someone get it.

793

:

It's like almost like you gave them,

the keys to the castle, you know?

794

:

Yeah.

795

:

It's like, oh, now for sure.

796

:

It's so, it's like, ooh, now.

797

:

I get it now.

798

:

This whole experience can be mine too.

799

:

Steveo: Well, listen, that is exactly

when people get their first monster booth.

800

:

Yes.

801

:

That is exactly how they all look.

802

:

They're like, they have

the keys to the castle.

803

:

They're ready to go.

804

:

They just unlocked everything when

you get that aha moment, especially

805

:

with a stroke, like a, like a boof.

806

:

Yeah.

807

:

Like somebody's airborne.

808

:

They're like, ah, that

was better than sex.

809

:

You're like, ah, that's

my, that's your aha moment.

810

:

And I'm glad that was a part of it.

811

:

Brett: That's awesome.

812

:

That's what I mean think about how many

things you're connecting to the student,

813

:

the students connecting to the river.

814

:

I mean, that just seems there's,

there's so much joy in all of that.

815

:

It's pretty amazing.

816

:

Steveo: Yeah.

817

:

And when you say you, it like that,

it sounds complicated and you think

818

:

about all these different things it

is a complicated sport, but there's

819

:

also so much simplicity in it.

820

:

You're just out there on the

river and your boat just getting

821

:

from one point to another

822

:

I always tell my students, 'cause they all

come off work, you know, these, uh, adults

823

:

and whatever stress they had that day.

824

:

I'm like, let's put, put your boats in

the water, put your butt in the boat and

825

:

feel it all kind of drain out from the

bottom of the, because it's like, that's

826

:

what it is every time I get on the, yeah.

827

:

Brett: That's awesome.

828

:

And then to be a part of that.

829

:

And to be able to offer that

space in someone else's life

830

:

is probably really powerful.

831

:

Steveo: Really rewarding.

832

:

Yeah, it's cool.

833

:

Yeah, for sure.

834

:

Yeah.

835

:

It feels, yeah, it feels good.

836

:

Brett: You've supported, you

know, education through the

837

:

River School program logistics.

838

:

What roles or experiences have shaped.

839

:

How you think about paddling this place

in, in people's lives, you know, as

840

:

you've kind of gone through your career.

841

:

Steveo: Yeah.

842

:

When I first was learning, it was like.

843

:

You know that surf culture is like, and

patrol, or we have to go paddling, you

844

:

know, it's, it was like that, that need

and then it, and then it evolved and some

845

:

people dropped out, some people didn't.

846

:

And then it kind of like came to a more

natural, balanced place, you know, with

847

:

paddling and lifestyle, and especially

now having kids and a wife and all that.

848

:

And I think like, it, always

has, it will always have a place

849

:

for that, that outlet, you know?

850

:

And for me to lose, stress.

851

:

And I see it with the other adults

I'd have out in the river too, whether

852

:

it is like how I thought it would

be where every day would be going to

853

:

dump patrol in the falls and, or now

it's just a casual, it's a thing that.

854

:

You lose some stress and you're

just out there to go surf

855

:

some waves and have some fun.

856

:

It doesn't have to be anything

than what it is to yourself.

857

:

Brett: Yeah.

858

:

That's awesome.

859

:

You know,

860

:

Steveo: whereas before if

somebody would've asked me, I'd

861

:

be like, no, this is lifestyle.

862

:

Get a truck, sleep in the back.

863

:

Let's go.

864

:

And now it's, now it's evolved

to just be like, it can be

865

:

whatever it is for anybody.

866

:

Brett: So as you've gotten older,

right, your perspective on paddling

867

:

has become more encompassing, inclusive

of a lot of different ways paddling

868

:

might fit into people's lives.

869

:

I'm sure you've been affected by, or

just experienced watching other students

870

:

and how it fits into their lives.

871

:

You said paddling, can be really

simple, if you were to describe

872

:

that to somebody else, like, you

know, what is paddling all about?

873

:

You know, why, get out there and do it?

874

:

Steveo: Yeah.

875

:

I mean, I think the, the

simplicity just comes with like

876

:

the, the balance with nature.

877

:

You know, like in the natural world,

that's exactly why you should get

878

:

out there to do it, to get back to

basics a little bit and, and get to

879

:

someplace that nobody else can get to.

880

:

And I'll tell you, I haven't been teaching

much kayaking lately, but I taught a

881

:

class last week and it was fall training.

882

:

And I took these adult who

range from 65 to 19, right.

883

:

There was a group of eight of 'em and

Sophie Renoso and I had 'em for one day

884

:

and we took 'em to Fisherman's Eddie.

885

:

Taught 'em to stern, squirt, all these

fun stuff, and they're half slices.

886

:

And then, I was like, Hey, let's

go, let's go look at the falls.

887

:

You know, lemme take you guys up there.

888

:

And so we went up to Horseshoe Wave

and we ferried around and took 'em

889

:

to the spout and the, and the kettle

and took 'em to places that they've

890

:

lived there their whole lives and

they've never been to these places.

891

:

And this is the only place

that you can get to it.

892

:

You can only get there by Kayak.

893

:

You know, it's such a

unique place to, to be.

894

:

And, and to take it a step further, that

kind of got me onto a new mindset of like,

895

:

we have these pack graphs now, which just

are changing so much with what we can do.

896

:

And I, I took a group of ninth

grade kids out there on Friday and.

897

:

Like first time in a boat in these

pack rafts, I ferri 'em over to odac.

898

:

I carried them over to Below Horseshoe

and I took 'em on a tour just walking

899

:

around Great Falls, you know, and these

kids go to Bullas, they're ninth graders.

900

:

, Who knows if they're one day they're gonna

make policy in the outdoors, you know

901

:

right?

902

:

And I took 'em to in their backyard and

I'm like, had this adventure with them.

903

:

Around Great Falls, you know, like

below the kettle below, you know, spout,

904

:

scouting, pumble, and talking about

hydrology in Charlie's Hole, yeah.

905

:

It was just for these guys, and that

was their first day in a boat, you know?

906

:

Brett: Yeah, that's, I mean, that's

a pretty crazy first day in a boat.

907

:

That's awesome.

908

:

Steveo: I know, I know.

909

:

And I mean, I had a different plan.

910

:

I got vetoed, so that was my backup,

but both were gonna take us out there

911

:

to explore because it was, yeah.

912

:

It's so unique, you know?

913

:

Brett: Yeah.

914

:

That is, that's an incredible experience

you put them in the environment of

915

:

class, class five and kind of gave

them a tour, like a little kind

916

:

of a look under the hood almost.

917

:

Yeah.

918

:

Like, and like out

919

:

Steveo: and, and in their

backyard too, you know?

920

:

Yeah.

921

:

We were 10 minutes from the Great Falls.

922

:

Yeah.

923

:

And they had never been

to that spot, you know?

924

:

And so.

925

:

That was an aha moment for me.

926

:

You know?

927

:

It's like was kind of pushing my limits

on how, how quick can I teach someone

928

:

to kayak to get to below Ball, you know?

929

:

Brett: Yeah.

930

:

That's interesting.

931

:

You've written about grit, and the

ability to push through uncomfortable

932

:

moments, on the river, like jet training.

933

:

How do moments of challenge on the

water translate to lessons in life?

934

:

Steveo: Hmm.

935

:

It's, it's gonna sound really cliche,

but like if you're gonna go, you'll

936

:

go through times and like you're

paddling where you're like, this isn't.

937

:

This is hard.

938

:

It's snowing.

939

:

Why am I going upriver, kayaking

is supposed to be downriver.

940

:

There's an ice bridge.

941

:

There's a guy behind me named

Steve-O telling me to paddle faster.

942

:

And you're like, why?

943

:

Why am I doing this?

944

:

You know?

945

:

And I think that's a really unique thing

946

:

you're in those moments it's

snowing, it's cold, whatever.

947

:

And you're like, if I can

do this, I can do anything.

948

:

You know, and like that's where

it, the cliche kind of comes in.

949

:

And you know, for me that's translated

from, kayaking, doing the hard stuff and

950

:

kayaking, not just, you know, but like

going and hiking in and doing these fun

951

:

things, has really like changed my whole

outlook on what I can do as a person,

952

:

I did, you know, I've done like two

Ironmans and I ran a 50 mile race

953

:

last year because I'm like, I've

been in these hard places if I can be

954

:

there, I can do other hard things too,

955

:

Brett: I like that a ton.

956

:

The idea that paddling, was

expansive for you in your own

957

:

life in terms of like, oh, I've.

958

:

Been down these waterfalls, I've led

other people and what else can I do?

959

:

And it's led.

960

:

And, and so you've act, you've

actually branched out, pursued Iron,

961

:

iron Man's and and other things where

you've pushed yourself because, you

962

:

know, pushing yourself is it's a

source of growth, for you as a person.

963

:

Steveo: Yeah.

964

:

And and we were talking

a little bit earlier.

965

:

Before the podcast about, you

know, how like finding that balance

966

:

and like pushing that growth.

967

:

It could be a little bit

of an addictive thing.

968

:

And so there's definitely, I have a hard

time finding balance between like padding

969

:

all the time doing these other things.

970

:

Family, you know, it's hard,

it's a hard balance for sure,

971

:

but it's all, it's all worth it.

972

:

It's all fun to see how far you can go.

973

:

Brett: Yeah,

974

:

Steveo: totally.

975

:

Brett: Um, yes, that

balance can definitely be.

976

:

It can definitely be hard to, hard to

find as you're out there kinda, you

977

:

know, sharpening the acts, so to speak.

978

:

Putting yourself in uncomfortable

situations and when you have other

979

:

responsibilities in life, a wife and

kids, and a job, and, finding the

980

:

balance between, you know, how much

attention, each, each thing gets.

981

:

And each thing can, you know, really be

in service of, in service of the other.

982

:

But finding, finding and dialing

that in is, it's always a thing

983

:

to be mindful and aware of,

984

:

Steveo: yeah, for sure.

985

:

Brett: Um,

986

:

what is your approach to cultivating

a paddling community in the

987

:

DC Maryland region and beyond?

988

:

If you think about.

989

:

KVA River School programs.

990

:

The and beyond piece is really interesting

to me right now because you just recently

991

:

started like the KVA paddling team.

992

:

I feel like the reach of the river

school is really growing and I'd love to

993

:

hear you talk about what your plans are

994

:

Steveo: I mean, to me

community is everything.

995

:

Like the only reason that I do what I do,

is to have a good community surrounding

996

:

me and the people that I love, you know?

997

:

And so I think that is everything,

when I think about like the changes we

998

:

make to the river school or kva, or.

999

:

Whatever it is, I always think about

how can we bring the community more

:

00:47:33,810 --> 00:47:37,200

involved and how can we bring the

community in to help us and how

:

00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:38,700

is it gonna serve the community?

:

00:47:38,790 --> 00:47:39,840

And I feel like I've done that.

:

00:47:39,900 --> 00:47:43,020

I do a good job of it

in the, in the DC area.

:

00:47:43,750 --> 00:47:49,570

One thing I want to grow with this

paddling, the, the shop team, is to spread

:

00:47:49,570 --> 00:47:51,400

that for rest of where all these other.

:

00:47:51,955 --> 00:47:53,185

Team paddlers are paddling.

:

00:47:53,185 --> 00:47:56,725

You know, bring the communities

in and be out there and give

:

00:47:56,725 --> 00:47:57,985

them a little bit of freedom too.

:

00:47:58,835 --> 00:48:03,545

Brett: So what kind of athletes are

you bringing in to the KVA shop team

:

00:48:03,605 --> 00:48:04,805

as, is that what you're calling it?

:

00:48:04,805 --> 00:48:05,405

The KVA shot?

:

00:48:05,405 --> 00:48:06,365

Steveo: That's what we call it.

:

00:48:06,465 --> 00:48:08,115

So it kind of started with Kaylin.

:

00:48:08,175 --> 00:48:08,925

Frieden, okay.

:

00:48:08,925 --> 00:48:16,005

He, um, was paddling for a boat brand

and wanted to paddle other boat brands.

:

00:48:16,005 --> 00:48:19,275

And I had always thrown around

the idea of a shop team since we

:

00:48:19,275 --> 00:48:21,615

started the store a few years ago.

:

00:48:21,615 --> 00:48:26,445

And what I saw it being is like

anybody can come and, and paddle any

:

00:48:26,445 --> 00:48:27,915

gear that they want, that we sell.

:

00:48:27,915 --> 00:48:31,755

They don't have to be stuck to a boat

brand or a paddle brand, you know, or.

:

00:48:32,460 --> 00:48:35,880

They can, they can choose the best craft

that they want, you know, from any brand.

:

00:48:37,170 --> 00:48:39,930

And so Calin came to me and

that's what he was looking for.

:

00:48:40,290 --> 00:48:42,990

And it just happened to be like,

someone like Calin comes to you and

:

00:48:42,990 --> 00:48:45,480

is like, Hey, let's, let's do this.

:

00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:47,640

I'm like, yeah, dude, you got it.

:

00:48:47,820 --> 00:48:51,605

You know, because he sends it

so hard in every aspect of, of

:

00:48:51,890 --> 00:48:53,060

every discipline of kayaking.

:

00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:53,840

Yeah.

:

00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:54,410

And so then.

:

00:48:55,580 --> 00:48:58,070

We started with Kaylin and then

Sophie was quickly added on.

:

00:48:58,070 --> 00:49:01,370

Once we committed that we were gonna

do it, we were like Sophie, like,

:

00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:05,600

you know, Sophie Renoso, she went

to the Olympics twice for Mexico.

:

00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:08,930

She's been one of my best

friends for 15 years.

:

00:49:08,930 --> 00:49:10,580

Like, she's, she's great.

:

00:49:11,150 --> 00:49:17,540

And um, so she, those two really started

it off and then it kind of went from there

:

00:49:17,540 --> 00:49:22,100

and Bobby Miller was looking for a change

and Isaac Hall was looking for a change.

:

00:49:22,935 --> 00:49:23,035

Brett: You've got.

:

00:49:24,070 --> 00:49:28,380

Kind of a younger guy, younger,

hardcore whitewater with Isaac.

:

00:49:28,380 --> 00:49:31,830

Multi-discipline with Kaylin

and two time Olympian.

:

00:49:31,830 --> 00:49:32,430

That's really cool.

:

00:49:32,430 --> 00:49:35,100

And then you've got some older experience

and someone who's been around for

:

00:49:35,100 --> 00:49:38,050

a long time, I like how you're kind

of covering the spectrum there too.

:

00:49:38,830 --> 00:49:39,070

Steveo: Yeah.

:

00:49:39,070 --> 00:49:42,190

Be because it's a lot of it's about

instruction, you know, like, it's

:

00:49:42,190 --> 00:49:45,190

like I love, like the team and the

gear and all that kinda stuff, but

:

00:49:45,580 --> 00:49:46,990

the only reason we have a store is to.

:

00:49:47,650 --> 00:49:49,180

Provide a service to the community.

:

00:49:49,180 --> 00:49:50,980

'cause there wasn't a

store in the DC area.

:

00:49:50,980 --> 00:49:54,430

And then the only reason that we

have a store is to fund the paddling

:

00:49:54,430 --> 00:49:57,370

school so that we can just keep

it, it's like a circle, you know?

:

00:49:57,370 --> 00:49:57,520

Yeah.

:

00:49:57,580 --> 00:50:01,810

The school funds, the community,

the community helps fund the store.

:

00:50:01,870 --> 00:50:05,410

And these pa team paddlers, I hope

are, are gonna be a part of that.

:

00:50:06,100 --> 00:50:09,550

Brett: Help, help kind of spread the

word, push the vision, all that stuff.

:

00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:11,110

Steveo: Yeah, exactly.

:

00:50:11,380 --> 00:50:11,860

I think it's a

:

00:50:11,860 --> 00:50:12,520

Brett: really neat thing.

:

00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:15,190

I mean, I think it's a

really, it's a really cool.

:

00:50:15,850 --> 00:50:19,090

Concept in the industry at large too.

:

00:50:19,140 --> 00:50:21,720

How do you see it maybe fitting

into the larger industry?

:

00:50:22,350 --> 00:50:23,160

Any thoughts on that?

:

00:50:24,180 --> 00:50:27,510

Steveo: Yeah, I, I mean, when these

guys were leaving their brands to

:

00:50:27,510 --> 00:50:30,810

come and paddle ours, we got a lot of

support from it, from all the reps.

:

00:50:30,810 --> 00:50:32,700

They were like, yeah, that,

you know, no big deal.

:

00:50:33,210 --> 00:50:36,750

That was, you know, yeah, it's, it,

you know, it was accepted pretty well,

:

00:50:36,750 --> 00:50:40,350

and it was, it was unique and it was

a cool thing that everyone was behind.

:

00:50:41,580 --> 00:50:44,220

One of the companies was like, yeah,

if they need anything, let me know.

:

00:50:44,250 --> 00:50:46,470

'cause they were like, oh, we want

them, we want your team members

:

00:50:46,470 --> 00:50:47,940

paddling our boats kind of thing.

:

00:50:48,530 --> 00:50:50,840

And so I think like it's,

that's definitely a disruption.

:

00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:57,500

But I think what it provides is

like a school, um, a school to like,

:

00:50:57,770 --> 00:51:00,830

you know, show like, Hey, our, our,

this is what our product is about.

:

00:51:00,830 --> 00:51:04,550

Like these, these paddlers are

amazing paddlers and we want to

:

00:51:04,550 --> 00:51:06,560

turn you into amazing paddlers too.

:

00:51:07,325 --> 00:51:10,235

Um, and yeah, they, they, you know,

they use whatever gear they want

:

00:51:10,235 --> 00:51:11,675

and that's a great freedom for them.

:

00:51:11,675 --> 00:51:15,155

But really it's, it's for

people to kind of look up to.

:

00:51:15,615 --> 00:51:21,075

Brett: What I really love about this model

is that it's, it's very reflective of the

:

00:51:21,075 --> 00:51:23,925

way the paddling community actually works.

:

00:51:24,015 --> 00:51:28,005

You know, it's sort of like a

lot of people come along through

:

00:51:28,005 --> 00:51:31,095

a club or through like a group

there's an original crew or a group

:

00:51:31,095 --> 00:51:32,745

of mentors and like you kinda.

:

00:51:33,735 --> 00:51:34,695

Work your way.

:

00:51:35,625 --> 00:51:39,585

Not that there's like an up, you know,

to, to go to, but as you gain more

:

00:51:39,585 --> 00:51:42,705

skill and do more things, and you have

these people that you look to in the

:

00:51:42,705 --> 00:51:46,715

community that are really pinnacles

and, it's such a small community too.

:

00:51:47,445 --> 00:51:50,195

And so I like the intimacy of it, right?

:

00:51:50,195 --> 00:51:56,525

That these people that are on the team

are really accessible, I like how you

:

00:51:56,525 --> 00:51:58,145

said it's all about the education piece.

:

00:51:58,670 --> 00:52:02,450

And so these people are really

accessible, you know, to those

:

00:52:02,450 --> 00:52:03,650

people that are just starting.

:

00:52:03,650 --> 00:52:08,240

And so what that does, I think, is

that you can see a really nice through

:

00:52:08,240 --> 00:52:12,410

line, you know, from, oh, this is

where I can, this is where I can go.

:

00:52:12,410 --> 00:52:15,080

And I think that's really

encouraging to people.

:

00:52:15,660 --> 00:52:17,520

You're creating community from the outset.

:

00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:18,240

That's really neat.

:

00:52:18,270 --> 00:52:18,450

Yeah, I

:

00:52:18,450 --> 00:52:22,290

Steveo: mean, the, like Sophie Renoso

is right now teaching with us full

:

00:52:22,290 --> 00:52:23,580

time and running the store and.

:

00:52:23,970 --> 00:52:28,840

She's up there teaching your beginner

class and, you know, young Mexican who's

:

00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:32,320

been to the Olympic twice comes up and

is like, yeah, I'm in day one in a boat.

:

00:52:32,350 --> 00:52:33,190

Says who they are.

:

00:52:33,190 --> 00:52:35,470

They're like, wow, that's

pretty, that's amazing.

:

00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:36,310

Pretty amazing.

:

00:52:36,580 --> 00:52:39,820

Brett: I mean, that's kind of, you

know, I, you know, maybe, I don't

:

00:52:39,820 --> 00:52:42,340

know if this is gonna be the right

metaphor, but it's, you know, it's

:

00:52:42,340 --> 00:52:46,600

like if you just, Hey, I'm learning

to play tennis, and then you're like,

:

00:52:47,110 --> 00:52:51,180

there you are, like out at the tennis

club, and the person teaching you is.

:

00:52:51,525 --> 00:52:54,445

You know, on the pro tennis

tour, that's pretty unheard of.

:

00:52:55,515 --> 00:52:57,555

Steveo: It's, and, and,

and that's really cool.

:

00:52:57,645 --> 00:53:01,095

And yeah, and Kaylyn will,

Kaylyn, you know, teaches

:

00:53:01,095 --> 00:53:03,105

they come and do classes too.

:

00:53:03,105 --> 00:53:05,325

And Bobby, uh, teaches with us a lot.

:

00:53:05,995 --> 00:53:06,680

It's awesome.

:

00:53:07,430 --> 00:53:07,790

Brett: Yeah.

:

00:53:07,910 --> 00:53:09,470

That is, that's, it's very cool.

:

00:53:09,470 --> 00:53:12,080

I really am looking forward, um.

:

00:53:12,500 --> 00:53:17,360

To just sort of seeing how that

evolves, um, and grows and changes,

:

00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:20,810

um, as you, as you guys move forward,

that it's a really cool thing.

:

00:53:21,530 --> 00:53:24,565

Steveo: Yeah, it's good and one thing

that we try to promote with all of

:

00:53:24,565 --> 00:53:26,275

our instructors and people that we.

:

00:53:26,875 --> 00:53:30,445

That teach with us is like, you like

to get amongst it themselves, you know,

:

00:53:30,505 --> 00:53:33,325

because if they're getting amongst it,

they're gonna have the passion for it and

:

00:53:33,325 --> 00:53:34,825

then it's gonna pass on to the students.

:

00:53:34,825 --> 00:53:35,395

And it's good.

:

00:53:35,785 --> 00:53:38,155

Like I'll show up to a class and

I'll run the falls to go down

:

00:53:38,155 --> 00:53:40,735

and meet my class with fisherman

Eddie, and they're like, oh my God.

:

00:53:40,735 --> 00:53:41,695

You know, it was crazy.

:

00:53:42,085 --> 00:53:45,385

And that like then to be, to learn

from someone like that who just

:

00:53:45,385 --> 00:53:49,465

did that is like the, it's a very

unique thing you get in this area.

:

00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:51,310

Brett: A hundred percent.

:

00:53:51,580 --> 00:53:51,940

Yeah.

:

00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:52,390

Yeah.

:

00:53:52,390 --> 00:53:55,630

You're sort of connecting like the core

of the passion, bringing that right

:

00:53:55,630 --> 00:53:59,315

back into that, outdoor classroom,

outdoor river, river space and

:

00:54:00,275 --> 00:54:02,660

Steveo: teaching and that

class five community right into

:

00:54:02,660 --> 00:54:04,190

the class one community too.

:

00:54:04,190 --> 00:54:07,160

You know, you're kind of merging

everybody in, so there's not that

:

00:54:07,430 --> 00:54:11,540

separation between, I only paddled

the chutes, or I paddled the falls.

:

00:54:11,540 --> 00:54:13,520

Like everyone's kind of,

everyone's connected.

:

00:54:14,150 --> 00:54:14,480

Brett: Yeah.

:

00:54:15,110 --> 00:54:15,320

Yeah.

:

00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:16,700

I really, I really like it.

:

00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:18,980

I think there's a lot of good that

can come out of those kind of,

:

00:54:19,170 --> 00:54:20,970

connected relationships for sure.

:

00:54:21,750 --> 00:54:22,140

Steveo: Yeah.

:

00:54:22,140 --> 00:54:24,930

And the team, it, I wanted to

do it for a few years, so I'm

:

00:54:24,930 --> 00:54:26,220

glad we finally got it going.

:

00:54:27,030 --> 00:54:27,720

Brett: That's awesome.

:

00:54:28,020 --> 00:54:31,560

Nice work with that, that

it's really very cool.

:

00:54:33,090 --> 00:54:34,770

I got two more questions for you.

:

00:54:35,130 --> 00:54:39,420

So if you had to distill one insight

about being on the river, um,

:

00:54:39,510 --> 00:54:44,940

something you hope every student

learns, and it could be philosophical,

:

00:54:44,940 --> 00:54:50,005

reflective paddling in life, anything

you want, like what would that.

:

00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:54,030

B, that one insight what is that?

:

00:54:54,035 --> 00:54:55,950

Steveo: That they, that

they can do hard things.

:

00:54:56,610 --> 00:54:57,150

Ah, I love it.

:

00:54:57,840 --> 00:54:58,170

Yeah.

:

00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:02,490

That anybody can do hard things, you know,

no matter what, what age you are, where

:

00:55:02,490 --> 00:55:04,080

you are in life, you can do hard things.

:

00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:04,860

Yeah.

:

00:55:06,330 --> 00:55:09,180

Brett: And then so important to

like, keep revisiting the idea

:

00:55:09,180 --> 00:55:10,560

that you can do hard things too.

:

00:55:11,220 --> 00:55:11,910

Keep showing up.

:

00:55:12,525 --> 00:55:13,935

And doing it again and again.

:

00:55:13,940 --> 00:55:14,100

Yeah.

:

00:55:14,205 --> 00:55:14,865

And again.

:

00:55:14,955 --> 00:55:15,285

Yeah,

:

00:55:16,395 --> 00:55:16,905

Steveo: exactly.

:

00:55:16,905 --> 00:55:17,445

Brett: I like that.

:

00:55:17,805 --> 00:55:21,495

Yeah, I think, I think

paddling is a great way.

:

00:55:21,645 --> 00:55:26,485

Spending time in the water is a great

way to incorporate that into your life.

:

00:55:28,885 --> 00:55:29,065

All right.

:

00:55:29,095 --> 00:55:33,805

And then the last question of do

you have a specific river moment

:

00:55:33,805 --> 00:55:36,415

or story, you know, big or small?

:

00:55:37,105 --> 00:55:43,325

You want others to hear because it really

just captures what paddling, means to you.

:

00:55:46,415 --> 00:55:49,295

Steveo: I mean, I think honestly

this, I, I said it already, but

:

00:55:49,295 --> 00:55:54,095

this, you know, taking those kid and

first day in a boat and pack rafts

:

00:55:54,095 --> 00:55:58,625

and taking them to go to the Great

Falls, like right in their backyard.

:

00:55:58,655 --> 00:56:03,665

Like, to me that was like the, yeah,

that's, that's like the story that.

:

00:56:04,250 --> 00:56:05,330

I want people to know.

:

00:56:05,390 --> 00:56:07,100

'cause it's a, it's an amazing one.

:

00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:10,250

It's, it's a cool, it's just so cool.

:

00:56:10,700 --> 00:56:10,940

Brett: Yeah.

:

00:56:10,970 --> 00:56:17,150

That reminds me of how we started when

we were first talking and your GW Canal

:

00:56:17,150 --> 00:56:24,260

experience of like this moment of being

invited into this kind of mystery.

:

00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:28,280

This thing that was just underneath the

surface they didn't really know about.

:

00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:30,860

And you're like, damn, that's

been here the whole time.

:

00:56:31,580 --> 00:56:36,790

Um, and then being able to then

share that back, um, and pass that,

:

00:56:36,940 --> 00:56:39,730

pass that invitation on to others.

:

00:56:39,790 --> 00:56:41,110

That's what I get from that story.

:

00:56:41,875 --> 00:56:42,295

Steveo: Wow.

:

00:56:42,295 --> 00:56:43,045

That was good.

:

00:56:43,045 --> 00:56:43,555

That was good.

:

00:56:43,555 --> 00:56:45,955

Dot connecting there from there.

:

00:56:46,945 --> 00:56:47,695

I like that.

:

00:56:47,695 --> 00:56:51,715

That it's exactly what it

is because I still, I still

:

00:56:51,715 --> 00:56:53,005

remember my wonder, you know?

:

00:56:53,695 --> 00:56:53,995

Brett: Yeah.

:

00:56:54,490 --> 00:56:55,150

No, totally.

:

00:56:55,150 --> 00:56:55,480

I do.

:

00:56:55,510 --> 00:56:56,260

I do too.

:

00:56:56,410 --> 00:56:56,950

I do too.

:

00:56:56,980 --> 00:57:00,100

No, I, and it's just

completely, completely genuine.

:

00:57:00,370 --> 00:57:06,850

Um, because the way that I, the way that

I started kayaking, was I didn't know

:

00:57:06,850 --> 00:57:12,120

any, I'd never even, I saw a kayak one

time on a rafting trip down the new river.

:

00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:15,210

This guy threw a cartwheel and

I was like, what the heck is go?

:

00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:17,010

This was like 25 years ago.

:

00:57:17,010 --> 00:57:18,750

I was like, what is

that guy do even doing?

:

00:57:18,750 --> 00:57:19,620

I asked the raft guy.

:

00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:21,720

He was like, that's a cartwheel.

:

00:57:21,780 --> 00:57:22,830

I was like, whoa.

:

00:57:23,430 --> 00:57:24,060

Mind blown.

:

00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:25,290

Uh, yeah.

:

00:57:25,350 --> 00:57:25,740

Never.

:

00:57:25,740 --> 00:57:27,900

I just never like, had even seen it.

:

00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:34,380

Um, so then I, you know, saw a boat

sitting outside an outdoor shop kayak.

:

00:57:34,650 --> 00:57:37,320

Never even seen one at,

at the outdoor shop.

:

00:57:37,980 --> 00:57:39,030

Just went in, bought it.

:

00:57:40,290 --> 00:57:45,760

Bought a spray skirt, helmet, life jacket,

drove to a river, muddy and brown just

:

00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:47,320

figured out how to put this stuff on.

:

00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:50,990

And I remember, I remember

just like taking off down

:

00:57:50,990 --> 00:57:53,020

this river, no instruction.

:

00:57:53,020 --> 00:57:57,010

This is not recommended

fishing pole with me.

:

00:57:57,060 --> 00:57:59,190

Early fishing hack experience.

:

00:57:59,220 --> 00:57:59,640

Long before.

:

00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:01,410

Yeah, it was a thing.

:

00:58:01,860 --> 00:58:03,980

So fish kayaking in a white water boat.

:

00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:08,510

Because that was sort of the connection I

was making at that, at that point for me.

:

00:58:08,510 --> 00:58:10,580

But it was, uh, but I'll never forget it.

:

00:58:10,580 --> 00:58:13,010

You know, I just, I think

I paddled like 20 miles.

:

00:58:14,135 --> 00:58:18,935

I floated 20 miles down this like

muddy, swollen river to the park

:

00:58:18,935 --> 00:58:20,555

where I grew up playing soccer.

:

00:58:21,095 --> 00:58:23,405

This is before I didn't even

have a cell phone or anything.

:

00:58:23,405 --> 00:58:28,305

Like I got out, drug the boat

shore and walked to a payphone

:

00:58:28,305 --> 00:58:29,655

and called my mom collect.

:

00:58:32,910 --> 00:58:34,380

Steveo: Well, you have to

explain what a payphone is.

:

00:58:35,670 --> 00:58:36,510

Brett: You're showing your age.

:

00:58:36,570 --> 00:58:40,320

That was my, that was the, I invited,

I invited myself to the river.

:

00:58:41,335 --> 00:58:41,625

Yeah.

:

00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:43,230

Steveo: Uh,

:

00:58:44,130 --> 00:58:44,430

Brett: awesome.

:

00:58:45,330 --> 00:58:46,200

Yeah, it is.

:

00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:47,640

It's, it was the guy

that threw the cartwheel.

:

00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:50,280

I put it in my brain and I was just

like, you know, I gotta do that.

:

00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:50,580

So,

:

00:58:50,850 --> 00:58:51,335

Steveo: yeah, I know.

:

00:58:51,335 --> 00:58:52,735

It's definitely, it's the wonder and you I

:

00:58:52,735 --> 00:58:52,855

Brett: share.

:

00:58:52,885 --> 00:58:53,175

Yeah.

:

00:58:53,180 --> 00:58:53,310

Yeah.

:

00:58:53,310 --> 00:58:54,570

You and I share that in common too.

:

00:58:54,570 --> 00:58:56,700

'cause I started out as a surfer as well.

:

00:58:56,970 --> 00:59:00,630

Going out, you know, traveling to the

outer banks, learning to surf, teaching

:

00:59:00,630 --> 00:59:05,100

myself to surf, and then it was, you

know, blown out and undependable often.

:

00:59:05,250 --> 00:59:09,560

And so kayaking was a, uh,

was an easy , alternative.

:

00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:10,970

So I've never looked back.

:

00:59:11,015 --> 00:59:11,105

Yep.

:

00:59:12,785 --> 00:59:13,775

Steveo: It's a good place to be.

:

00:59:15,875 --> 00:59:21,575

Brett: Steve o We appreciate you and all

that you do for the paddling community,

:

00:59:22,165 --> 00:59:26,455

not only in the DC area, but the

extension of that community because it

:

00:59:26,455 --> 00:59:28,495

really does spread across the country.

:

00:59:29,065 --> 00:59:31,075

Um, KLA is such a huge hub.

:

00:59:31,075 --> 00:59:32,875

It's such a huge instructional hub.

:

00:59:33,595 --> 00:59:35,335

It's really amazing work that you do.

:

00:59:35,950 --> 00:59:39,640

And I know you've, probably touched

the lives of so many people, both

:

00:59:40,030 --> 00:59:45,400

kids and adults, and really you've

extended that invitation to something

:

00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:47,020

that's really life changing.

:

00:59:47,650 --> 00:59:48,940

It's amazing work that you do.

:

00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:54,550

I hope you keep doing it and really

just appreciate you coming on and, and

:

00:59:54,550 --> 00:59:57,560

talking to all of us about, the work

that you do and why it's so important.

:

00:59:57,890 --> 00:59:58,460

So thank you.

:

00:59:59,270 --> 00:59:59,540

Steveo: Yeah,

:

00:59:59,540 --> 00:59:59,780

Brett: no,

:

00:59:59,780 --> 01:00:00,620

Steveo: happy to do it, man.

:

01:00:00,675 --> 01:00:01,165

Anytime.

:

01:00:02,855 --> 01:00:03,365

It was good.

:

01:00:04,505 --> 01:00:04,895

All right.

:

01:00:05,555 --> 01:00:08,945

And with that, that is

a wrap for episode five.

:

01:00:08,975 --> 01:00:13,415

We will see you all back

here, uh, for episode six.

:

01:00:13,445 --> 01:00:16,085

Until then, have some

good times on the water.

:

01:00:16,865 --> 01:00:17,555

And we'll see you soon.

All Episodes Previous Episode

Listen for free

Show artwork for Following Waters

About the Podcast

Following Waters
Life on and off the water.

About your host

Profile picture for Brett Mayer

Brett Mayer

Brett Mayer is a lifelong educator, athlete, and environmental advocate whose career bridges the classroom and the river. With over two decades of teaching experience in public, day, and boarding schools, Brett has built a reputation for integrating adventure and experiential learning into academic settings. A former Division I soccer player and accomplished whitewater kayaker, Brett has competed in elite races like the Green Race and participated in a few exploratory first descents. His passion for paddling led him to complete a master’s thesis on the relationship between whitewater kayaking and environmental stewardship, a reflection of his deep belief in learning through experience. Brett has held teaching and coaching roles at the Landon School, Hotchkiss, Episcopal High School, and currently at Carolina Day School in Asheville, NC, where he most recently developed the "Impact Asheville" project to connect students with real-world problem solving.

Off the river and outside the classroom, Brett serves as the Policy Director for the American Canoe Association, where he works nationally to protect and expand access to the nation’s waterways. He was also an early collaborator with Outdoor Alliance, helping to unite the outdoor recreation community around public lands advocacy. Through this work, Brett brings vital civic, environmental, and recreational insights back into his teaching. Above all, he is a father to three children—Aoife, Stokes, and River—and is deeply committed to raising them with a strong sense of independence, resilience, and connection to the natural world. Whether guiding students through academic inquiry, paddling whitewater, or advocating for public lands, Brett’s work is united by a single goal: to inspire people to live with purpose, courage, and connection to the places they love.